Jeff Cavins on Walking Through Every Door God Opens (Re-Air)

This episode is a re-air.

Jeff Cavins never planned any of it. A confirmation Bible at thirteen, a stack of colored markers and a sheet of butcher paper at twenty-six, and a habit of walking through whatever door opened. That is how the Great Adventure Bible Timeline was born and how a former Protestant pastor became one of the most recognized voices in Catholic media. In this conversation, Jeff traces his yes across five decades, from Mother Angelica's studio to the Holy Land to the balcony of St. Peter's, and lands on the single priority that orders everything else.

What We Talk About:

• How a Bible received at confirmation set the course of a life that had comedy and broadcasting in view
• The 48-hour stretch in which Jeff drafted the entire Bible Timeline chart—and the fifteen years it sat before taking off
• What Emily's archaeology and 69 Holy Land pilgrimages taught the Cavins family about walking where Jesus walked
• The morning The Bible in a Year hit number one, and why Jeff and Fr. Mike Schmitz say they would have ruined it had they aimed for that
• Why Jeff refuses to describe popes as liberal or conservative, and what he heard echoing when Pope Leo XIV stepped onto the loggia

Resources Mentioned:

• When the White Smoke Clears: A Guide to Pope Leo XIV's Early Days
• Jeff Cavins
• The Jeff Cavins Show
• The Bible Timeline: The Story of Salvation
• Paloma&Fig

Chapters:

• 00:00: Welcome and opening prayer for Pope Leo XIV
• 01:40: Comedy, radio, and a confirmation Bible at thirteen
• 03:31: Walking through open doors—Steubenville, Mother Angelica, EWTN
• 09:04: Emily, archaeology, and 69 pilgrimages to the Holy Land
• 12:23: Butcher paper, markers, and 48 hours that made the Bible Timeline
• 18:42: Coming home to the Catholic Church and filling in the silent years
• 20:59: Scott Hahn, Matt Pinto, and the birth of Ascension's Great Adventure
• 24:50: The phone call that said The Bible in a Year was number one
• 28:19: Advice to young Catholics—incubation, passion, and a sixth-grade verdict
• 35:28: Catholic media, ideological gladiators, and doing what Jesus said
• 45:00: Pope Leo XIV in Rome and the echoes of John Paul II
• 1:00:34: One priority, not twelve—and the story of Jeff's last ride

Produced by Saint Kolbe Studios

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Thank you for joining us for Resounding Yes Podcast. The Resounding Yes is a show centered around Mary's fiat and reflects upon how we say yes to the Lord. We are a podcast produced by Creative Agency Paloma and Fig. Visit PalomaandFig.com to learn more about our Creative Agency, including lots of engaging creative content, all through a Catholic and artistic lens. Welcome back. I am Christina Savo and I'm joined by Jeff Cavins, a nationally and internationally known speaker, author, television host, podcaster, and pilgrimage leader, whose engaging style of teaching has helped hundreds of thousands of Catholics grasp a better understanding of the Catholic faith and the scriptures. Welcome to a resounding yes, Jeff.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

It's good to be with you, Christina.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Well, thank you. As always, at the start and end of every episode, let us pray in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Mary, Mother in Heaven, we come to you to please intercede for us as you do always, but specifically for Pope Leo the Fourteenth as the shepherd of the universal church. We ask that you intercede to continue to protect and guide the church under his leadership and wrap him and the faithful within your perfect mantle. Thank you for bringing Jeff's voice to all listeners today, and thank you for for your guidance and hand and his work here on earth. May you help to intercede to bring the Lord's words into our conversation so that we may be vessels of his love through the messages shared in today's episode. We ask this through the intercession of our Lady of Grace, Saint John Paul II, and Saint Peter the Apostle, to please pray for us. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. All right. Well, I would love to give a little bit of background. I say a little bit, it's really a lot of background. I just can condensed it quite a bit because there's so much to say. Um, background on Jeff for listeners who may only know him in one specific way or for one thing that he's done out of the many. So, as I shared previously, Jeff is very well known. I will sum up all of the beautiful work that you do to the best of my ability. Jeff truly communicates the faith at a level that really everybody can understand, taking the theological truths and expressing them in a practical way. Personally, I love that about him, and his voice is iconic. I hear you all the time on Hallow Lately. Um, and just every time you come on, I just always know it's you. And you're so relatable when I listen to you speak or anyone does, whether it's in person or recorded. So Jeff is the creator and founder of the Popular Great Adventure Bible study series and is the founding host of multiple radio programs. He currently has a weekly podcast, The Jeff Kavan Show, through Ascension Media, and has recently partnered with the Hallow app, like I mentioned, narrating Bible reflections alongside the Chosens, Jonathan Roomy, and Bible in a year alongside Father Mike Schmitz. He is the author of several books and has contributed to many as well, which one of which we will talk a little bit more about today, When the White Smoke Clears, a guide to Pope Leo the Fourteenth's Early Days. So, all of that to say, I'm so thankful for this time speaking with you, Jeff. Thank you for being here and sharing more about your yes to your vocation and your expertise on the faith and insight on the start of the papacy of Pope Leo the Fourteenth with all our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Well, it's good to be with you. And I've listened to several of your podcasts too and enjoy them very much.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Well, thank you so much. That means so much. Um, all right, so we would love to hear directly from you, Jeff. Can you share with our listeners your story? How did Jeff Cavins become the Jeff Cavins today? And in what moment or moments did you say yes to the Lord, leading you on your journey to your vocation?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Sure. Well, you know, that it's uh it's a good question, and it could be asked of anybody because everybody has a story, everybody has a narrative to their to their life, and and everybody has events in their life that when they face them, they either go left or right or up and over, or it stops them and they go in a completely different direction. And I think, you know, as I look back over over my life and the decisions that I that I made, what I'm doing now was not on the radar at all growing up, at all. Uh I I was I was really interested in going into radio, television, and uh and then right before I had a conversion experience at 18, I was doing stand-up comedy. And and so those were the areas that I thought, well, you know, I think I'll I think I really like to do some of those things. And I ended up in um in a uh commute mass a mass communications degree in college, and that's where I met uh Emily's my wife, and my whole life changed at that point. And so from that point on at 18, I had a hunger for the word of God, and I I attribute that really to my confirmation night. Uh I was 13 years old, and uh that night I received a Bible, and uh something something attracted me to that Bible, and I know now it was confirmation, you know, the Holy Spirit working in my life and really snagging me, saying, I have something for you here. And uh and so from 13 on I was fascinated with the Bible, even though I didn't read it really seriously until I was 18. And when I did, man, I could not stop. I I was like possessed in a good way. I just could not, my my mom was really shocked. She was like, he carries that Bible everywhere, he's always reading that Bible. What has got into him? It's just a phase. He'll get out of it, he'll get over it, and I never did. And so my life was really made up of uh walking through open doors. Now I know that doesn't sound like a big skill, but as my skill level, that was really something. You know, at open doors, uh, I'll go through it, I'll see what's over there. And and one thing led to another, and uh I look back now and I can see how the Lord has put everything together that I was interested in. You know, everything that that that caught my attention from radio as a as a kid growing up. My parents took me to the state fair, and I just sat in front of the radio stations the whole time, watching, you know, just watching, even when they weren't on the air, just sitting there watching, because I was fascinated with it. When I got a hold of the Bible, um uh, you know, and then and then after that, everything that I did began to accumulate, and before you know it, I'm at EWTN and I'm in radio, and with Jonathan Rooney in Israel and the Holy of Holies, everything built on something from the past that was a simple door that I went through, you know, and making those making those choices. So I think, you know, looking back, you you can see the Holy Spirit has been leading and guiding me, and uh I just went through those doors. I really didn't and my wife had a lot to do with it. My my mother-in-law had a lot to do with the influence of my life, meeting the right people at the right time, uh, becoming good friends with Scott Hahn early on, uh, Mother Angelica picking me to be the host of a new show on on EWTN. God just lined everything up, and you really can't take a lot of credit because the credit really goes to the Holy Spirit who is guiding and directing for uh Jesus' purposes.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

I I like the the I the idea of going through the doors. So often we hesitate and we don't go through those doors that that open up for us, and it's so important to just you know to say yes and to go through those doors when God opens them, or to go through a window if a door, you know, um when the with a if a window opens too. So um that's great. And I love that. Mother Angelica, she is one of my I just I I just chuckle every time I think of her and just it's it warms my heart. Um and all her whole story with EWTN. I'm I'm a huge fan of that.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

So yeah, that was an open door. You know, I was teaching at uh my bishop to my bishop Paul Dudley in Sioux Falls, South Dakota told me to go. Once I knew I was coming back to the Catholic Church, he said, I want you to go to Steubenville and get a Catholic degree this time. So I did. And I went through that door, and it was lonely, and it was hard, it was difficult, um, humbling. You know, I was 35 years old, I'm going back to school. I have a daughter in fifth grade, and uh then the school, Father Michael Scanlon said, We want you to teach here. Whoa, that's an open door. And then I taught there for a couple years. Then Mother Angelica wants me on her show. Whoa, that's an open door. And after she interviewed me, we're off the side of the set, and she said, Would you pray about moving here and starting your own live show? I go, Okay, you know. Wow, I didn't come up with it. I didn't come up with any of the ideas. It was just the Lord opening doors.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yes, yeah, right, right. It's one of those like, you know, pinch yourself type moments. Well, the God's yeah, God's opening those doors for you for sure. That's so great. Um so speaking of your wife, you you know, shared with me prior to recording that you have been married for over 40, so for 47 or 48 years?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

47.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

47 years. Um, and I know of your Holy Land pilgrimages with uh Emily. Um, can you share experiences uh with our listeners? Um, leading pilgrimages alongside Emily, your wife, um, following the footsteps of Jesus, Mary, and the disciples. How did that start? And in is there a trip or trips that stood out to you in particular working together?

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Uh that's a good question. We we started off uh when I was 25. I was 25 years old. I was I was a brand new senior pastor at 25. I had left the Catholic Church and went back to school and I was ordained, and uh we started in Minneapolis, uh a small independent church, and I was the pastor, and uh, and I love scripture. At that point, I had been studying scripture very seriously for about seven years, and went through Bible college in Texas and all that. And uh the thing for me that was missing was going to the Holy Land and really walking on the on the ground that Jesus walked on, and Mary and Paul and Peter. And so there was a special opportunity called a familiarization trip where they the company takes people to Israel that shows potential for bringing groups back, you know. And I was only 25, so I ended up signing up for that, and uh we went, and right when I landed there, I was in and went to Jerusalem, I was hooked. I I knew I needed to come back, and uh the Bible opened up to me like like never before, and both Emily and I said, We've got to bring people back here, we have to, and so I started bringing people back, and um the the trip with uh Jonathan Roomy, the latest one, was the 69th trip to the Holy Land. And so the the company was originally upset with the lady that signed me up saying, He's too young, he'll never bring people back. And it's it's been 69 times now, but uh but so we we fell in love with the land, and my wife's an archaeologist, and so uh she loves digging in the land, and she's been a part of some really, really celebrated digs in the Holy Land. And she's just finishing up her PhD in archaeology, and uh she she chose to really spend her time with the kids, you know, growing up and to not pursue that. And now that they're all grown up, all three daughters, and we have grandkids, three of them, she has really pursued that and she's almost done.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

That's fantastic. I would love to speak with her. She just sounds like such an amazing, what an amazing um person, and um what a story to tell, I'm sure she has from all of the the digs and just her passion that she has as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Um, just call her call her agent, and you can get her on the show. Yes. Uh by the way, I mean I'm I'm her agent.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

I had a feeling maybe that's where you're going with it. We'll have to talk after this, yeah. Oh, that's so wonderful. And the two of you have having so many memories together um over the years. What a what a story. That's that's fantastic, and to pass those on to your children and grandchildren as well. Um so uh so to kind of turn a little bit, I often bring up, and we talked a little bit about this before the recording, um, I often bring up my past working with youth in these episodes as it seems relatable with so many of our guests uh being involved in Kim's ministry, knowing of the work of our guests in kind of a different capacity than the media. Um, all that to say, can we talk a little bit about the Great Adventure Bible published by Ascension? You began, and I'm sure any everyone who's listening right now has to know what this is. And if you don't, you need to immediately after you finish listening to this episode and go check it out. So um, you began developing the system in, and correct me if I'm wrong, 1985, and it's grown into a worldwide movement, truly, uh, which focuses on understanding salvation history through the Bible biblical narrative. Um, the Great Adventure Catholic Bible is the companion, obviously, to the study system that you developed. Um my heart is still partially lives, uh, just as I shared it with you, in a classroom setting or sitting on a chair or couch alongside a teenager struggling with his or her faith as campus minister. Um, we would love to hear from you on the start of the adventure Bible study system and what led you to develop it.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Well, yeah, good question. You know, I was uh I was 25 years old when I started as a pastor. I've been away from the Catholic Church for about four years at that point. And I couldn't get enough of the Bible. And I I read, in fact, there was a two-year period where I studied almost 10 hours a day, just sitting in a chair while my wife worked at in the evening hours at a restaurant. I s I was in the radio in the morning and the whole afternoon I just study, study, study, study. So I knew the Bible's I knew the Bible stories pretty well, you know, for being 25, 26 years old, 27 years old. But the problem was that I didn't know the story. Even after Bible college, you know, I knew I knew about Noah, I knew about uh Adam and Eve, I knew about Abraham, I knew about uh Moses and David and Paul and Peter, I knew all these stories. But if somebody sat down and said, tell me the whole story, then I would have had to find a way of telling a story that included all of this that sounded pretty good, you know. But I really couldn't just say, okay, in the beginning, and then go all the way to Jesus in the fulfillment. I couldn't do it, and I wasn't taught in in Bible college, I wasn't even taught that. And so I had this real desire to learn that. And so there were I was sitting, I was taking a course at the University of Minnesota on Hebrew, and I was 26, I believe, 26 years old, and I was taking Hebrew, and I was sitting in my car waiting to go in, and I had these two cassettes by a a biblical scholar going through the history of archaeology, which I wasn't interested in, but I was fascinated that he could go from the early copper age all the way to the Iron Age in chronological order, telling the story of the Bible by archaeology. And thought, man, I wish I could do that. And I thought, how am I gonna do that? How can I do that? And I'll tell you what, I just had this thought about a chart, a timeline chart, that I could see the story laid out on paper, the whole story from Genesis all the way to the book of Revelation. I saw clearly in my head, and if you have seen a great adventure Bible timeline, I thought I had one here with me, but if if you've ever seen one of these, that's what I saw in my head. And I got so excited. I thought I could do that. I think I could do that. It's gonna take some work, but I'm gonna lay out the story as one complete story. And I didn't go to class that day. I put the car in reverse. I went to a arts and crafts store, I bought a whole bunch of you know, colored markers and pencils and uh tape and all kinds of things. And then I went over to a meat market and I bought a great big piece of white paper for you know wrapping meat, about three feet by six feet, something like that. I don't know what it was, huge, but I only paid a quarter. I went home, took all my theology books and put them on the table, put this great big piece of paper out there with my my yardstick and my markers and everything, and I stayed up for 48 hours and created that entire chart.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

The whole thing in 48 hours. And by the time I was done, I was like, yes, yes, this is it. I can see the story. I'm gonna bring it to a couple scholars to make sure that everything's cool. But this is it. I rolled it up and I carry it around with me for probably a year. And I go into my office, lay it out on the office, put bookends, you know, on the ends of Genesis and Revelation, and I'd study. I'd roll it up, go home, put it back out there, and then I started to show a couple people, and they said, Man, that's cool. Do you do you think I could get a copy? Well, yeah, if you got a copy machine that will do three by six feet, but uh found a place to shrink it, and I started sharing it with people, and they they they loved it, and I realized I think I've stumbled onto something here. I'm telling the story, and my goal was, Christina, my goal was to lay that chart out eventually when people start getting interested. I want to lay the chart out and I want to stand off and watch them. And if they got it, then I knew I I arrived where I wanted, I wanted to go. But if I had to sit and explain everything, then I that's not where I wanted it. I wanted it to be there, it is folks, and people look at it and go, Wow, oh wow, that's cool, that's really cool. And so that's what that was my goal in doing it, and uh and so it started it started to take off, and then uh then the biggest change in my life really took place, and that is I came back to the Catholic Church. And when I came back to the Catholic Church, I had a problem and an opportunity. The problem was that the Catholic Bible was bigger, had seven more books, and I looked at this chart and I thought, wait a minute, there's a whole gap between the end of the Old Testament and the Gospels that I just call the silent years, and that's the Maccabean Revolt, perfectly. And I thought, wow, what I have left out of my Protestant Bible, 66 books, the Catholic Bible fills all these details in perfectly. And so I had so much fun, you know, revising it and making it Catholic. And uh I can remember the the first time that I visited Steubenville and I met with Scott Hahn for the first time. We had talked on the phone a few times, but it was the first time, and I I I took that Bible timeline chart. By then it was two eleven by 11 by nine pieces of paper or something taped together. Excuse me. And uh I I brought this over to Scott's house, and the first hour we were ever together, which we've been best friends since, uh I laid this out on his table. He looks at it and he goes, Oh, wow! And then he said, My only regret is that I didn't do it. So it was very very funny. But um so so I ended up uh teaching that at Steubenville when I went uh there. Uh I was far enough along in my Catholic journey, and I was raised Catholic, and um I didn't have to go to RCIA, just had to go to confession to come back to the church, the bishop told me. But I ended up teaching it there, and then when Mother Angelica asked me to come onto a show to just just to do one night, one night, uh, I told her about the Bible timeline, and she asked me on the show, she said, Would you pray about doing a 13-week show for us on this? We need to hear this story. So I said, Okay, I'll pray. And I closed my eyes for one second, opened them up, and said, Okay. And she's laughing, of course, you know, and and um and that ended up becoming our father's plan that I did with Scott Hahn on EWTN. And then it was it was after that, right around the year 2000, that we for the first time taped the the whole thing, the big Bible timeline chart with Ascension Press, Matt Pinto. So Matt Pinto is the one who he recognized, he came to one of my my seminars, and the seminar was all Saturday, actually it was Friday night and all Saturday, and it was me telling the entire story of the Bible with a giant chart in the front. And I was developing the chart in front of them, and each one of them had a small chart, and they were filling it in with markers and crayons themselves. And I did this all over the country for years, yeah, all over the country. And uh and Matt Pinto, right around '99, 2000, he he he saw it in Philadelphia. And he's sitting in the back, and he's he's writing on a legal pad, page page after page after page, and I'm thinking, he's really getting it. He he what he got it, but what he was writing down was all of the ideas on how to market this thing. He said, We gotta do this. And I said, I've been looking for someone that would that we can do this. You can do this the video series and the workbook and all of that. And so uh a lot of credit goes to his enthusiasm at Ascension Press. We we both were there at the beginning when the only product that we had was did Adam and Eve have belly buttons? The book. So so it just grew and grew and grew, and now today, with the the coming out of the uh the Great Adventure Bible, which takes this color-coded system of you know taking the entire Bible, dividing it up into 12 periods, color-coded, and then out of the 73 books, choosing the 14 narrative books to read through to get the continuity in the narrative, and show you where the other 59 fit in, showing you all the characters, all the major events, extra biblical characters uh in there, extra history, all of it. Uh we took all of that and we put it into a Bible, the Great Adventure Bible. And you know, Father Mike Schmitz was one of those those guys that was influenced by the Great Adventure. And and we have been friends for uh nearly 25 years. Uh we've been friends, we're both Minnesota boys, and so we've been friends for a long time. And uh when that when the opportunity came up to do a podcast, uh it was uh initially his idea. He wanted to do a daily podcast and go through the Bible. And as we all got together and talked about it, we thought, well, we kind of have the system now with the great adventure. Why not take that system that when we teach it, it's just a three-month uh program to go through the narrative books. Why not do the whole thing, the whole thing and stretch it out for the entire year? Yeah, let's do that. And so when we start talking about the details of it, uh he wanted to do the daily reading with us some commentary. I was more concerned with not losing people. So as we hit every one of the 12 periods, I wanted to just pause. Let's take 45 minutes if we need to here. Let's explain what we just went through. Now we're gonna go into another period, color-coded period. This is where we're going to go. Everybody ready? Okay, let's go. And then, you know, a few weeks later, all right, pause again. Let's keep the story moving. So, so that's that's what we did with Bible and Year, and of course, uh the rest is history because nobody expected the that podcast to do what it did. And and what's funny about it, Christina, is that the morning of January 1st, that year, that it was it now, four years ago, that that it was launched. That was 21, I think. I think. But um, I forgot we did it.

unknown 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Because we had stopped it back in October. We'd you know, getting everything done. And so I got other stuff to do. I'm writing and doing this and that, and we got a new study coming out, you know, and so you kind of forget about those things. You don't you don't dwell on it. And so I forgot about it. January 1st rolls around. Hey, happy new year. And then our producer calls and says, Are you sitting down? And I said, Yeah, why? She said, You're number one. And Christina, I am telling you, I had no idea what she was talking about. I had none. Oh, no idea. Yeah, and I and she said, I said, number one, what? She said, Podcast. And like a goofball here, I thought she was talking about my weekly podcast. And I thought, this gotta be, no, this is like I said, like like the religion category or Catholic category? No. Religion? No. Everything. Are you serious? And we both, Father Mike and I went to Apple and went, oh my gosh, this is really weird. So we knew the Holy Spirit was doing something there, uh, because we both said, had we known that that was the goal, we wouldn't have done that format. We would have been funny. We would have been, we would have done other things, you know, only to ruin it, of course, but uh we would have never we would have never done that format. If that was someone said, come up with a number one podcast in America.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

That would not that would not have been it.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Right. On our minds, in our you know, Catholic, our Catholic minds, that's not what what we anticipate at all. That's so I love that story. Um, and I'm sure I I cannot, I mean, I cannot imagine what that feeling is like, just I mean, almost wanting you know, falling out of a chair, probably type feeling. Like, wow, that is incredible. Yeah, number one. That's so great.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Well, yeah, it was incredible, and the same time it's scary because all of a sudden you realize that's a lot of people. Uh man, I hope I nailed it. I hope I said that right. You know, you start to question a little bit of yeah, I just thought it was a podcast. But you should you should always go to a podcast and you should be on a like this podcast and always want to make sure you're accurate in everything. But it does it shakes you up a little bit, you know, when you hear it.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. But and what a what an incredible, you know, the Bible in a year, incredible resource, the adventure, you know, uh the adventure truly is an incredible resource for for everyone. And like I said, if you if you're listening and don't and which I can't imagine someone does not know what it is, but if you haven't um looked into it, especially for us Catholics, we don't we don't focus on scripture as much. I mean, these days obviously these resources are or are here and um available and it's more of a focus, but thinking back to you know how I was catechized as um a young person and it you know the the scripture is not a focus um in in just you know it wasn't in my youth. So this is such an incredible, you know, so many resources that you've that that have come from you know the Great Adventure Bible series and I get a lot of young you were talking about young people, Christina, earlier.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

You've been involved in youth ministry, I've been involved in youth ministry, and you know, a lot of a lot of people they'll they're growing up, junior high, high school, wondering what should I do with my life, you know, and um and they have questions about well how do I go about making my ideas you know come to fruition. And I I tell you know, I like to tell them that do it what what you're passionate about. Uh don't worry about the money, you know, don't worry about that. You can you can live your whole life making money, or you can live your whole life living your passion for the Lord. If the Lord has put that passion in your life, let him worry about that, that that stuff. You hone in on your on your gift, on your idea, that tool, and and you go for it. And and and don't let it go. Uh because when when I developed that Bible timeline chart, I that was 48 hours out of all of my life, all of my life, only 48 hours defined my life. At that 48 hours of that passion and that and that that that searching and the and the going after God, and and suddenly going, aha! I think I've got something here. And and usually when I felt that way, people would humble I'd be humbled by the fact that I'd realized everyone else already knew that. I was just late to the game. Like I was driving up through Georgia and Mississippi one time on my motorcycle, and I was like 21 years old. I came upon a shell station, gas station, and for the first time in my life I realized the logo was a shell. You know, I called my wife and I got to the hotel. I said, Have you ever noticed that? She goes, honey, yes. But you think you really got something here, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

And it's like when I when I had my conversion experience at 18, I told my future mother-in-law that I think God gave me a revelation on how we can memorize the Psalms, make them songs. She started laughing, she said, honey, they're all songs. They're all songs. I said, What?

unknown 30:35

What?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

But uh, but what I'd say to the young people, you know, is that you find out what God has put in your heart and and go after it. Start hanging around with other people who are interested in this, start learning, start reading, start participating, and and and and stop looking for people that is at a boy, you know, just go for it. If that's really what God has put on your heart, because you know the scripture tells us that your gift will make room for itself. And I can tell you that that between between 18 in my that conversion, that between 18 and about 35 years of age, I I did not think that I had anything that was really particularly special. You know, even when I had that that timeline chart, I carried it around, I used it, I passed it around to a few people, and and I didn't know that that this thing was going to be incubated for almost almost 15 years before it really boom took off. It was just it was an idea that was nurtured, incubated until the proper time when God said, I prepared it for now. Now is the time. But I could have I could have left that so many times and said, Well, I'm gonna do this now, I'm gonna do that now. Which, you know, if you feel like the Lord wants you to do it, do it. But but I think a lot of good ideas people give up on themselves.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Right? I don't think you're good enough or that it hesitate and you wonder if it actually is God's plan. But I agree with that, and I think that's something that young people need to hear over and over again. We should, I'm just gonna just cut that clip from this episode and just send it to all you know the people that I know that have young people and just give it to them just to listen to over and over again. Because it's so true. You should you follow your passions and and God takes care of the rest. It's so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

What you're excited about right now may be something that changes the world. Yeah, it might just change the world, and you don't know that. And I'll tell I'll say this to young people too. My dad told me, my dad passed away this last uh October, October 10th of 2024. Um my dad told me about 15 years ago, he said, uh we were talking, he said, Did I ever tell you what your sixth grade teacher said to me? And I said, No, dad, what? In the teacher parent conference, he said, There's two things that Jeff will never do. One is be a public speaker because I passed out every time I stood up to I have to give a book report or something. I passed out, I got sick, my stomach. I could not do it, I just couldn't do it. And the second was he said he'll never be a writer. So he told my dad. And have you know when I think about that, he said you'll never be a writer because when we were told to write a I think it was a five-page story we were told to write in sixth grade, mine was like 163 pages, and not one bit of grammar or punctuation, not one. And so he told my dad, he said he just doesn't get it. He doesn't understand the punctuation, the grammar, and all that. I don't think he's ever gonna be a writer. Now, had someone told me that, had my dad told me when I was 25, your your teacher said you're never gonna be a speaker or a writer, I would have might might have to live with that, you know. And I'm glad I didn't know it. Because I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to be a writer or a speaker. And that's what I would share with young people is that you you listen to what God has put in your heart, you know. It's what it means in the Bible and says, train up a child in the way they should go. And when they grow old, they'll not depart from it. And in Hebrew that means train up a child in the way that they are going, which is the right moral, ethical way. That's the way whatever that that direction that they're going. You you embrace that, you help them, you you you train them, you know. It doesn't just mean do whatever they want to do, but it's in that direction they start seeing encourage them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Encouragement too, and what a great man your father father was for doing for share for not sharing that. Um he sounds like a wonderful man.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Yeah. Um, so so to talk a little bit about the me we talked a little bit about the media, and obviously um that's a big part of your life. So lastly, before we dive into Pope Leo XIV and talking about his papacy, can you touch on the I'd love to hear from you, um, and so would our listeners. Can you touch on the Catholic media movement over the past several years? You have been such a prominent voice, obviously, in presence, evangelizing digitally, reaching more hearts, even more hearts. Um, I spoke with Father Patrick Mary Briscoe and Katie McGrady, a few others on this topic, all of which have been in the limelight, so to speak, more recently. Um, what do you feel the future will bring with what the faithful have experienced in truly a new evangelization or really a renaissance moving in the direction that we're going?

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Sure. Well, another great question. You know, back when um back when I was on EWTN in the 90s, uh that was about all there was, really. I mean, that was the big thing, EWTN and Steubenville conferences was the other big thing going on out there. There wasn't podcasting at that time, really, you know. And to come up with your own TV station would have been sort of ridiculous. Radio was just starting up in the Catholic in the Catholic world, but this idea of uh blogging or podcasting or YouTube, you know, though these things were not not used that that much. So over the years, you know, I over the years, Christians typically follow the secular trend. The secular trend uh picks up on technology and how they're gonna use it, you know. And I was one of the when I started on the internet, um, and if you look up the year on this, uh there was only about 25,000 people in the world on the internet when I started on it. And I had to have very expensive equipment at home to to uh talk to people around the the globe, and it was very, very primitive. And and at first it started off with more like uh, hey, it's me, where are you at? I'm in Poland, hey, I'm in Minnesota, hi, you know, and that was about it. It was like a handshake, and and then it progressed, and and it became you know more personal, obviously, you know, when you got America Online and Yahoo and all and all of that. But over the over the last number of years in in the Catholic Church, it has really, really grown to where somebody will ask me, hey, did you listen to so-and-so's show? I only have never heard the name, you know, and they're like, What? You didn't hear the name. There's so many people out there doing this. I did a podcast uh several years ago on 10 things that I would say to a young Catholic entrepreneur. And and uh that's a whole show in itself, so we don't have to do that, but maybe we can do that some other day. But it it's you know, it's 10 ideas for a young Catholic entrepreneur. And one of them that I noticed is that um the tool that we have, you know, um uh your show can be very powerful. You can reach into someone driving in a car in San Francisco that's thinking about taking their life and they don't. It's very powerful what you can do with it. But with with that power and that opportunity in mass media comes a tremendous responsibility, a tremendous responsibility. And and so you have to know what you're called to do. You have to know your strengths, you have to know your weaknesses too. You know, um on the door at Delphi in E in uh Gree in Greece, it says know thyself. And that's not a positive statement of know your strengths, you know, and your abilities. Know thyself meant know your weaknesses, know your weaknesses, walk in humility. And that's one of the points I mentioned to the young entrepreneurs is that there needs to be a bit of a baptism on uh humility, and that while there's a lot of power and authority and a lot of tremendous things that can happen with media, you have to find your place. Like people will ask me all the time, well, what do you think about what Vatican did about this or that? And my opinion doesn't really matter very much, but what matters is for me to be faithful Catholic and to be respectful and to treat people with with dignity. And so one of the things that I had started to notice with the proliferation of um mass media opportunities was that people started judging other people very quickly, and that their show was the show that judges all shows. And and then and then we we saw that in the secular media, you know, where people would watch the major networks, whether it's Fox or CNN or MSNBC. It's almost like they're all the ideological gladiators out there, and then we're watching the fight, and then Monday morning, did you see that? Did you see this? And I started to notice that it was moving into that area with evangelicals, with Catholics, in that it became a battleground uh for their favorite speakers, their favorite ideologies, you know. And I started noticing young people with very little education, experience, or background judging heavyweights in the church on issues that they really had no experience in. And I so when I was speaking to young adult groups, I was saying, hey, tone it down. You know, remember what we're about here. It's the charisma, the good news, the gospel. It's about Jesus, it's about uh it's about lives changing that. And that's where we need to focus. And so, you know, I I'm reminded of uh C.S. Lewis's book, The Screwtape Letters. And in there, he, you know, screw tape goes to Wormwood and uh the younger demon, and he's got all these ideas, ideas like, and if I were going to be were if I was gonna be a screw tape and and you were Wormwood, uh Christina, I would say, listen, engage them in the topics, okay? But make sure it's around the edges, it's the controversy, it's and try to get the try to get them to pit uh one against another. But don't get near the middle of this thing, you know. Keep them out there, keep them active, keep them emotional, you know, and and make them feel like they're part of a team, but don't let them get to the core where they actually start doing what he said to do. And that's what I that's what I started noticing. Uh this is years ago. You know, today there's so many wonderful young people who are doing great things uh out there. But my recommendation is stay on the core issues, if you know, and keep people on Jesus and uh and becoming disciples of Jesus and uh and overcoming those challenges in your life that keep you from being that disciple, or what I would call the activated disciple, to uh to do that. So I so I think that it's a it's a well, I I'll just end it by saying this. Earlier on in the 90s, 80s and 90s, my heart was one was in a place where I wanted people to share Christ with others or to do what Jesus said to do. A lot of the books that were out were talking about what he said. But I'm thinking, we gotta we gotta move beyond this. I mean, there's always a place for what he said, but we gotta do what he said, what he said to do. And and that has always been my fear of mass media, in particular YouTube or Instagram or TikTok, whatever it might be, is that we will continue talking about what he said rather than focusing on doing what he said. Not being a hearer, but being a doer, that that's where it's at. So talking about what he said is great and everything, but let's move on to it.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Right. And I heard someone say recently once in reference to the media and Catholic media, and um, and I don't recall who who it was, but um it was we want to make Jesus famous. That's our goal is to make Jesus famous. It's you know, taking ourselves out of it. And I and I love how you touched on that about um, you know, on the peripheries or just the the edges of um and actually I have that book. I've not yet read Screwtape Letters. I shared this on another episode that I have it, and I have yet to read it just because of what it's about. And I have I struggle with it a little. I start to, and I'm like, no, not to yet, not going to yet. But um I agree with what you said about um, yeah, trying to pick sides. That's what the evil one wants. Um, we need to focus on what the what's really important and like I said, make Jesus famous. So um all right, so now we'll get into Poplio the 14th. Uh so we recorded a series of episodes. Um, I didn't share this at the start. I usually do when we we have these um uh we've recorded a series of episodes through the conclave following the election. Um now we've kind of gone past that. So um all of these interviews you know had different Catholic voices and reflections. You recently contributed, as I shared at the start of this, um, to When the White Smoke Clears alongside other trusted voices from Ascension, truly providing um what's described as a companion for us as Catholics as we navigated the early days and continue to navigate Pope Leo's um papacy. I love this book because it is not written through the lens of speculation, but really truly, as you just stated, rooted in Christ, as an invitation really to prayer. Uh, without giving too much away from your book, of course, uh I know listeners would love to hear from you regarding Pope Leo's early days and now, since we are now several months in, how we as Catholics can answer the questions of what is God doing in his church right now and what is he asking of me during this time?

SPEAKER_01 46:09

That's in relationship to Pope Leo, you mean?

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Right. Well, I was I just uh got back a couple weeks ago from Rome and uh was able to take in a Wednesday audience, which is fantastic. Our group was uh earlier in the year was the last group that Pope Francis spoke to on a Wednesday, and so we got we got uh Pope Leo, and uh I gotta tell you, I've I I have some experience with Popes, not real close, but uh starting with John Paul II, when I was a Protestant pastor, I had a list of three people, a lot more people, but the top three people I wanted to meet were John Paul II, Billy Graham, and Mother Teresa. I did get a chance to meet Pope John Paul II. I didn't meet the other two ever, but um I can tell you this that when Pope Leo came out uh the on the Wednesday audience, prior to him, most of the popes went straight to the platform, spoke, then got in the Pope Mobile and drove all around and met the people, you know, waving and blessing people and the babies and marriages and things. And and we're just sitting there waiting, and and all of a sudden someone says, He's in the Pope Mobile, and that was behind us. And they he went all around the group outside, then he goes up to the platform. I thought, he's doing things differently. This is really, this is pretty neat, you know, the way he's doing it. But uh I had the opportunity to cover John Paul II uh for six years with EWTN on World Youth Day and a few other things, and um I have never in my life ever, ever been around anybody with this magnetism, with, as uh Gen Zers would say, total riz. I mean, this guy has it, right? And uh and I I've seen I've seen some very um amazing things like when he spoke at the Keel Center in St. Louis, uh Pope John Paul II, he was gonna kiss Mark McGuire's, or Mark McGuire's gonna kiss the Pope's ring. And we're all watching this inside, packed. And uh we had hired EWTN hired uh it was a guy who had a cameraman and a sound guy, and that we're way up in the crow's nest, and I'm live on TV. And Pope John Paul comes into the Keel Center, lights flashing like I've never seen in my life, and the sound was like the sound of the ocean waves times a million. And I'm like, I there was something about it, and the two guys that weren't even Christian, they didn't have any faith, they both fell to their knees and started crying. Oh wow and I didn't know if I was on the air. And uh, and I'm looking at them and I'm looking at the camera, I think I'm just gonna act like I'm on the air, you know. And afterwards they they apologize, they said, we don't know what got into us. And I said, Well, I do. Listen, that's holiness. That's holiness, and that's the effect that holiness will will have on your life. So I I were I was able to eventually have a private meeting with Pope John Paul II in 2003 with my family, and it was uh it was unbelievable. Now I was also able to be around Pope Benedict and Pope Francis, which have their own charisma, they have their own their own riz, you know, in a sense. And uh and then and then uh I was there for Pope Leo, and when he came out, I said over, I leaned over to my wife and I said, There's echoes here. There's some echo here. This guy has something of John Paul II. There's the the crowd is relating to him in this way. That doesn't that doesn't mean that that the others didn't have uh a charisma or that the people did not respond to them in an enthusiastic way. I'm just saying there's something unique here. He he's got this relationship with the people, and I'm seeing young people run. And so I said, hmm, I said, I I think we're gonna have an interesting World Youth Day coming up. I really do. And I think that you're gonna see young people ignited with a passion to follow a shepherd like this. So I said, all of that, Christina, to say this there's something that's similar in the two, bookended here, you know, and we'll just have to see where that where that goes. But um, knowing that he's Augustinian and a real student of St. Augustine, you get a really good look right away at where his heart is and what he has already said in the just a few short months that he has he has been the the new holy father.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

I um often share the st the story of just my initial you know thoughts when he first stepped out, and I think it was within a split second that and I, you know, Saint John Paul II was the Pope for the majority of my adolescence, and I just he's a huge part of my life. Um and I know and I've watched videos of him, and immediately when um when he stepped out onto the balcony, I just thought I just immediate just like flashback of Pope, you know, Saint John Paul II. Um, and it was it was one of those like, oh wow, like this is I mean, and then we you know heard it was an American Pope, and then there's all the excitement without. But um it was just that like one little moment I just had this just I mean feeling in my heart of I just I just like I was looking at him for a moment. It was kind of the way he carried himself, and just um yeah, it was really neat to experience that. And I I uh and a couple people I've spoken with have said the same thing about World Youth Day and how they're really excited to see what that's going to be like, and that they predict it to be quite the um, yeah, quite the event again.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

So yeah, well you you know when when you look at the papacy, uh I I was interviewed a lot during that period, you know, on networks and about about the um about Pope Leo and and Pope Francis as well. And uh uh one thing hit me, and it might resonate with you as well, that when you're looking at the papacy, that is the Al-Habayid in Hebrew, the one who's over the household, Matthew 16, he has the keys to the kingdom, very important position in the kingdom of God that's biblical, it's Old Testament and New Testament, and all of church history resonates there. Okay, so there's not there's arguing about is the papacy biblical is such an easy thing to answer. It really it really is. But when we talk about the the pope, the recent popes, people want to know, well, what do you think about this guy? What do you think about that guy? And what I try to encourage people to do is to take a 30,000-foot level look at this. Let's let's back up for a second and see what let's see if we can see the hand of God in this rather than keeping this at a political level. Because the the the role of the Pope is a familial role. It is a family role. It isn't a chiefly a political role, it's a family role, it's a covenant role. And when you when you lose that aspect of the papacy as being the head of a family, then you naturally will turn to political terms to describe it liberal and conservative, moderate. Tell me, Jeff, what do you think? Do you think that Pop Leo is more on the conservative side or the liberal side? And I always try to stay away from it and to say what I'm about to say now, and that is that when you leave the family, you start to identify. You know, you start to identify, you know, is he liberal or is he is he conservative? But that's not how we judge things in the kingdom of God. We judge a man or a woman, if it be fair to judge, and you talk about looking at the fruit and so forth, in terms of are they faithful or not faithful to the deposit of faith that we have? And uh I joke around about it, but I have never had a young lady, 22 years old, come up to me and say, Jeff, uh, can I have a quick question for you? Sure, what's your question? I I just I'm I'm I think I'm called to be married. Would you help me? Would you pray that God would give me a moderate? It's never happened. Right. Never or would you pray that God would give me a liberal husband? What?

SPEAKER_00 55:05

I love time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

They don't that they'll say, would you pray that I would receive a what? A faithful man of God. That's what I'm I'm looking for. So when you look at the the popes, the last six, say, for example, you'll you will see, starting with John the XXIII. John the 23rd said, the world is changing so fast, we need to have a council. We've got to have a council. We've got to get together and find out how do we stay in touch with this changing world? Sexual revolution, technology, political upheaval around the world. What we're losing our place here. We've got to figure out how to address all this. That's what Vatican II was. He dies. Paul VI is the one that runs the council. We have a very unusual document called Gaudium It Spez, the Church in the Modern World. Now, this is important. The church in the modern world. That's that's amazing. Who's one of the chief architects of it? A cardinal from Poland called Karol Waitia. How are we going to be a church in this modern world? Alright? So Paul VI dies. And then we have John Paul I. And it's like we've we didn't even know we were starting before we ended, practically. And then we have John Paul II from Poland, history-changing Pope. He is a philosopher. Philosophy. Now, in Catholic teaching, Catholic teaching is based on a solid foundation of philosophy, and then theology builds on that. That's the way we've done it down through the years with Aquinas and Augustine earlier, and so forth. Okay, so that philosophy is really important. So you've got John Paul II who lays this incredible philosophy and theology of the body and the human person and so forth. And then it's one of the longest papacies ever. And then after that, Pope Francis. People are like, what's going on? What's he all about now? And he seems to be the Pope who is reaching out to the or I mean that after after John Paul II, you have Benedict. Sorry, you have Benedict, Pope Benedict. And Pope Benedict, what's he? He's a biblical theologian. Perfect. The foundation of philosophy. The biblical theologian, just the way we teach it all these years, he's building on that good philosophy. And that's why his so his teaching is so fruitful and so powerful. And then Francis. Now Francis doesn't isn't really a a well-known philosopher or biblical theologian, but someone who's really caring about those who are on the margin, in the margins, those who were not reaching. And he seemed to have a heart for that. I think you had a guest on uh a while ago who mentioned he was the someone said the Pope for the one, the you know, the one that left. He's after that in the 99, you know. And and that was a great, great interview that you did there. And then after Francis, what do we have? We've got Pope Leo. Wait a minute, Leo. I mean, that's a long, long ago, Pope Leo, you know, the 13th. But if you look at Pope Leo the at Pope Leo the Thirteenth, then what you see in Pope Leo the Thirteenth is a man who was focused on interpreting scripture, interpreting scripture in light of the modern situation today. In that document that Pope Leo XIII wrote, Providentissimus Deus, the most provident God, focuses on sacred scripture in a changing world. And so to me, the moment he said Pope Leo the 14th, Providentissimus Deus came to me. And his other great, great uh document on a changing world. And so I look at all of this now and I say, well, look what God has done over a 90-year period, is that he has told us, wake up, this world is changing, laid a philosophical foundation, laid a theological base on top of that, gave us a pope that said, get your eyes and your arms out there around the world. And now we've got Pope Leo that in some ways is I think is bringing all of this together. And and I think there's going to be a melding of a number of these recent popes and their philosophy, their theology, that is truly going to be a voice in this world. That's the way how I'd explain it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

That's so such a wonderful way and relatable way of of um thinking back in time and relating it to kind of where we are now. And and God always has a plan and who he puts in in um the chair of St. Peter. So you're right. He has a plan. Yeah, that's so great. I and I'm I'm looking forward to just what's to come with with Pope Leo the 14th. I'm very excited about all of that. Um so my last question is always a fun one. Um, this question that I ask is normally one I ask of priests, but I'm going to ask you as well. Um, so the uh what I would love to know, and what listeners would love to know, I'm sure, um, what brings Jeff Cavins the most joy? What brings you the most joy? If you could answer, uh, I know it's kind of whenever I ask this question, it's like I said, it's normally a priest, and they're they kind of sit there for a minute and they're like, well, let me think about that um for a moment. So I know it's kind of a big question, but what what brings you the most joy?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

That's another good question. You should have a podcast and interview people. No, yeah, it's it's a good question. You have a you have a wonderful podcast, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

Oh, thank you. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

So I you know what there's all kinds of answers that you could give to that, you know, in in different compartments of of of your life. But one of the things, Christina, that I have landed on in the last five years or so, is and C.S. Lewis brought this out, is that in life the notion that we have priorities is a very new notion. 1940s and 50s is when the word was first used, plural, plural priority. And I know that shocks people. They're like, what? No, it never never pluralized before that. And the Industrial Revolution and um uh business success and strategy and stuff, this idea of priorities came about. And so then someone may ask, what's your priority with your family? What's your priority at work? What's your priority with physical health? What's your priority in your diet? How about your finances? And before you know it, I've got twelve priorities, which means I don't have a priority. Okay, and and that I have one priority. Um and and Jesus brings it out, and that is seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all all these other things will will take care of of themselves. So I in the last five years have really focused my teaching, honed or focused my teaching, but honed my own thinking into what is your priority? Because if if if my priority is accomplished, all these other priorities down here will take care of themselves. So I I kind of shocked a group one time and I said, um, taking care of my wife and my children is not my priority. And they're like, whoa, what? What? No, taking care of my children is not my priority. And they're like, How can you say that? Said, because I have a bigger priority. That if I do that, they will be taken care of. If I do that, my wife will be loved. If I do that, God will take care of me financially. If I do that, he will take care of me in every way. And so the place where I receive the most joy is that in the course of everyday life, my family is peaceful, and I have done what God called me to do in serving him and to keep that priority, that I'm putting him first in everything. And at the end of the day, when I do that and I start to see these other areas affected, that just brings me a lot of a lot of joy. That at the end of the day, the priority is not money or fame or accomplishments or anything like that. It is really to one day hear the phrase well done, good and faithful servant. That's my goal. That's what brings me joy is that everything that flows from that, which the world will call priorities. Does that make sense to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:37

Yes, I think you win for the best answer. That's amazing. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:43

Yeah, and I can't tell you, well, uh what brings me joy is the greatest thing is running or playing guitar or um whatever, going to Israel with my wife. All those things are great, but it's under that umbrella of I really want to hear those words someday. That's my priority. My that is my priority in life. I want to hear those words.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

Yeah. Yeah, me too, for sure. I have to ask you, does it um change the subject? You mentioned riding a motorcycle. Do you still ride motorcycles? You meant you mentioned it when you were younger, but do you still ride them now?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

I I don't have one right now. Uh over COVID, I actually ended up selling it accidentally. Oh accidentally. I have I was going from a Harley Davidson uh for our our listeners who who might not know exactly what we're talking about. My my buddies, I have a bishop in Canada, some priests and deacons and lay laymen. And every August we would go for two weeks on a on a big motorcycle ride, and I would speak at a church every other night. And so we would come room running up with our Harley Davidson's, and I'd have full leather and get off. Church is full, go in there, speak, and then have a barbecue afterwards, and then ride another 400 miles the next day. And and uh we so we'd go six, seven thousand miles in a couple of weeks. But um I was having a little bit of a problem with my feet, and the Harley is really big, especially on gravel. So I was going to buy a uh get a BMW. And uh so I brought my Harley to the store, and uh I had everything ready for it to be a trade-in. And my bike never showed up, the the BMW, because something with Bavaria, the problems they were having, it didn't show up. So I was kind of tired of it. And I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna keep the Harley. So my wife dropped me off there after like six months of waiting on this thing over the winter and everything. And uh I walked in. Now they had all the paperwork done, and they were supposed to call me if they had someone that was really serious about buying it, my bike. So I walked in and I walked over to where I knew it was parked, and I wasn't there. And I walked back up to the front desk, and the the guy looks at me like and I said, Where's my bike? And he said, We hired a new guy. But he didn't get the message. Your bike was sold.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:05

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

And I was like, What? What and something rose up in me. I was like, I was a little torqued. That's Greek for mad. But um, and uh I just thought just a second, I went to the other side of the store to kind of compose myself, and and I started walking back, and I felt like the Lord spoke to my heart and said, It's done. You're done. You've been writing since you were 16. I mean, look at me now. I mean, obviously, it's been 20 years now. I felt like the Lord said, Give it up for Emily. Because Emily didn't like it when I was on the road, you know, two weeks, 95 miles an hour in Montana highways and mountains, and going to Montreal and going up to Banff and down to Arizona and California and everywhere. And um, and I just felt the alert saying, I protected you. You've had all these, you know, hundreds of thousands of miles of riding with your friends, it's a good fellowship. Go out on top, give it up for Emily.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

And so I thought, all right, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

I'll do it. And uh I called her back, I said, You gotta pick me up. She goes, Why? I said, I don't have a bike anymore. And she said, Oh, okay. So she turned around and came back and said, What are you gonna do? Are you gonna you still gonna get the BMW? And I said, No. No, I said, I just looked at her, I said, Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for letting me do this. Thank you for being patient, you know. And she said, What do you mean? I said, I'm I'm done. She said, Whoa, wow. You don't need to commit. I said, No, no, I'm uh I'm done. I'm done. I'm all right, I'm alright. I'm alright. So now the guys this year and all this year, they want me to ride in my car behind them to carry all their stuff. I haven't given them an answer yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

You can still participate in a way. I'm all for humility, but well, from coming from someone who's you know, you you you being up right, you know, riding for so long and then having to go from that to you know hauling.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

Carrying their bags all across Canada.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

Um my dad growing up rode bikes and he uh he still does um Harley's and um so I know what that I can only imagine what that feeling was initially when they told you that it was sold. It's like uh he you know, it's like his baby, so I get that for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:47

I I um yeah the the uh it really um that really had a an in an impact on me. I was gonna show you this. You can include this in there if you want. I don't this was um here it is. Yeah, we really rode a lot. Here's the here's the bike that was sold. You can see it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Oh wow. Oh wow, what a pretty yes, what a pretty bike.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:19

Take as much time as you need.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

Yeah. Take it in. It's a big one. Let me get it closer to the camera.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

Nice bike.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:26

Nice and shiny. Yeah. Yeah. We'll have to share that. You'll have to send it to me. I'll put it in the show notes and people can see it. Yeah, I'll do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:33

I'll do that though. Jeff's last ride. But if someone said, Well, what if Emily said she wants you to get a bike? Well, I'll pray about it.

unknown 1:10:45

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:47

But I'm all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

Whatever the Lord wants. Yeah, that's that's well, that story is beautiful. And yeah, and again, humbling, I'm sure, if you continue on those trips. And what I mean, what great memories, though. Um, and that is very, very neat. Um, and I'm sure many people don't know that about you. So that'll be interesting for people to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

Yeah, we pray, we had Bluetooth on our helmets. We prayed two or three rosaries a day for our families.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:08

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

And at night we would have it go out for dinner in the morning, we'd have mass in the hotel room, and it's just a lot of fun. Good, good, good male friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

Right, right, right. That's great. Um, all right. Well, that's all I have. So thank you so much for joining us on our show, Jeff. It was such a joy for me to be a voice of and to further share your yes and the work that you continue to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:31

Well, thank you, and God bless you on your your uh podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

Well, thank you. So if uh listeners would like to purchase When the White Smoke Clears, a guide to Pope Leo for the 14th's early days, you can do so by visiting Ascension Press or clicking the link in our show notes. If you'd like to learn more about Jeff's work or any of the details mentioned during this interview, you can do so by clicking on the individual links in our show notes or by visiting JeffKavins.com. As always, we will close in prayer and pray for all of your silent intentions that you hold in your hearts. Let us also pray specifically for our brothers and sisters who have fallen away from the practice of the Catholic faith. We ask that the Lord in his infinite mercy draw them back to the sacraments and to the life of his grace. Let us pray the prayer we all know so well for all of these intentions through the intercession of our blessed mother, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Well, thank you so much, Jeff, from all of us that are resounding yes podcast. We pray that all listeners have a joyful day and week ahead full of miracles. We ask that you please prayerfully share these episodes with family, friends, your community, and or parish to continue to spread Christ's light to the world. We like to mention that following us is easy and free. Just click follow on your favorite listening platform to receive alerts when we publish new episodes, or you can subscribe through our email bulletins at Palomaandfig.com for even more faith-filled content and evangelization of the faith. Thank you for your continued support as we could not do this without each of you and your prayers. God bless.